iMore show 445: Thousand dollar time shares

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Hey everyone it is februari 25 2015 I'm Rene Ritchie and right now we're going to be talking about more Apple watches more Apple cars and more things we can stick an apple character in front of this is the I more show joining me this week we have very special guest star from very nice website it's mr. John molt's how are you John I'm good how are you guys very well thank you I Peter at Peter Cohen the illustrious Peter Cullen was not going to be able to join us he said that he was bitten by a shark shot by a laser beam and then someone roofied him and then we said okay fine we'll get John mult to guest star and he was out

Of bed and on that mic in two seconds it's true yeah I had that effect on people hmm sure you're very charming John well more like a narcotic that was the voice of eternity Caldwell who are you Ren I'm doing good um it is uh still cold in the Northeast although apparently it's slightly warmer than it was yesterday so that's good I don't know what I'm gonna RMA this cold I'm gonna send it back to the Yukon where it belongs it's just they said yesterday and Peter and his wife very kindly made fun of us for this that it was so cold the pipes were freezing underneath the

Montreal streets so our utility people tried to put electricity through them to melt them and turns out that doesn't work so they had no other solution you walked away we have hospitals with no right now it's amazing I liked your idea for that what did you say you're gonna run flash and chrome and just set your Mac on top of it yeah that's a leak as vu huh and I think Dexter joining us this week ya know where he went but uh yeah yeah I was gonna try that cheese grater Mac Pro on its side running flash in chrome I figure I could get a three-mile radius probably we needed the

Cold out here because we're getting record heat we want to send you are you and Ozzy guys I don't like it actually no skiing this year ah you can come to counter to John yeah yeah take all the bostons know there's still about 10 feet like there's a hill outside my window wasn't it knocking it I would definitely do that yeah I think right I think I'm not clue is shipping it via Amazon Amazon drone 2 which is the remarkable thing all right so interesting news week Apple released betas for OS 10 point 10.3 and iOS 8.3 part 2 betas and they include

New emoji that focus on diversity so not only have 34 35 new flags including South Africa and Canada much to my delight but we also have the new unicode standard skin tones for emoji this was beautiful up until the internet got their whole their hands on it in which point they decided that the eunuch the emoji yellow suddenly was a horrible racial slur against people of Asian origin and Apple must suffer for this it was a fascinating story um ran I don't know how this goes from zero to stupid this quickly well um add one internet specifically admin 4chan um it's it's

Not a not entirely uh surprising to me that the Internet's like oh this is racist um but it is it is funny I understand like the default of all of these emojis in 8.3 is the yellow skin tone and if you don't know that a its default and be you can change it it starts to look really weird like the little tiny faces are fine but when you start using some of the more the the other emojis like the the guy and the girl or like the girl praying over her head when those are all yellow all of a sudden it becomes very very disconcerting it's like the uncanny

Valley yeah then animo gene is not human so wait they don't all show up you can just pick a set to use the yellow one is default you touch it and then the other ones pop up just like accents on the normal keyboard okay this is it was this troubling to you John with you were you offended by this uh well I didn't I mean I didn't notice it at first and then I saw the comments and then when I did see the comments i thought okay i mean i can see how it's like my son is he should and he doesn't look like that but my understanding is that this is all picked by some you know apple

In pink these colors particularly but it was picked by some standards board right yeah it's totally agent actually using allocation is pale pale white in the unicode standard okay well yeah it doesn't look doesn't look quite right I can see why you know some people might object to it but at the same time it's it's not like they're running that I mean doesn't seem like they're doing it out of deliberate racism it's interesting too because other people got offended for other reasons like for example people with blue eyes done represented because all the emoji have

Brown eyes the combinations are interesting because the very pale person has dark hair the slightly less pale person has blonde hair so who Amanda immediately felt you know underrepresented and then there's no ball people Peter I'd like there's just is this just something where you can't do right you do as much as you can and then you have to let it go yep there's no winning there's no redheads Wren there are no redheads it makes me very sad and our friend you know friend of the show Palka fascist was immediately offended that there was no right hand

With middle finger extended which is part of the unicode standard he actually filed a radar and blogged about it we talked about it on vector and God English and stands was you can very easily write out the f-word you don't need the emoji but the counter-argument is that the emoji puts a smile at the end of it that's more nuanced instead of saying f you period f you with a gesture Peter do you have felt do you miss you missed the middle finger do you miss the spock handy miss do you miss the other unicode editions it didn't make it in no no no I this is this is a story I just

Don't care about in any way shape or form this week there's no cotys Peter Peter doesn't like emojis actually I do I use a lot of emoji when I'm when I'm writing stuff down or what I'm messaging so you know it's it but but honestly it's it's not an imposition if an emoji isn't there it's just you know I I'm a writer I'm a painter of words I can probably figure out a way to communicate if I need to but imagine the possibilities I could tap down on french fries and get tater tots poutine and Pringles yeah but that's sacrificing too much work

Exactly alright so emoji gate is not going to get out of the gate is that her consensus opinion on this nope alright so then we're gonna head over to Ren because there's been this huge debate about the price of Apple watches we have people you know like John Gruber you talked about it with with John bolts on the talk show this week you're talking about 10,000 or 20,000 dollar watches our own Kevin Mitchell look he wants that watch to be hunted you know 10 or 20 if you can possibly have it and you pointed out the dilemma they're in yeah you know all right so I'm still not a

Hundred percent convinced that the rose gold watch is going to be 10 grand probably closer to like five to seven but humoring the the general masses for a second if we are assuming a 10 grand Apple watch what happens in 18 months what would happens with that Apple watch when when Apple watch 2 point 0 comes out so I wrote a kind of long rambling piece of my various thoughts it's like it's weird because apples never been in a space where there a technology company and by nature technology is replaceable every you know 1848 months depending on what you are what you have because

Technology you know the course of technology moves forward software needs faster machines etc etc uh watches are a little bit different than your average Mac or laptop watches are things that you know people tend to keep around for a while i I don't know very many people who are like you know what I'm just gonna buy this Rolex for 18 months then I'm gonna get the newest model Rolex the only time you buy a new watch from a brand as if you want a different fashion accessory so on one hand I'm like well I suppose uh I suppose that we could just look at this from the you know this is

This is the upgrade cycle for the one percent for the people who have the money to drop 10 to 15 grand every year but that seems wasteful to me even if you are recycling gold and everything else um and it C and the the way that Apple describes the modular s1 chip and the way that the the watch is actually built made me wonder if they're either going to offer some kind of trade in or some kind of upgrade program which again doesn't necessarily sound like Apple but at the same time none of this sounds like Apple ten thousand ten grand for a for an

Apple device that's not a mac pro that's primarily made of gold in a fashion statement it's a little bit different fathers office bought a ten-thousand-dollar Lisa back in the 80s yeah I was I guess yeah we haven't seen prices from out for like that from apple and since the 80s basically but they probably used it a lot longer than someone's going to use like a watch that the software is going to go obsolete within like you said 18 months and the battery is probably going to go obsolete within 18 months too it's not like these things are gonna last 50 years no and

It's it kind of rubs me the wrong way because it's like on one hand if Apple truly wants to sort of enter the watch face and be like one of these we're a height you know we're a high cost high cost watch option that isn't just high costs for the elite but also a not necessarily an heirloom but like something that parents could feel okay getting there their son or daughter as like a graduation gift aura it's you know some my sister got a really really nice watch for my parents when she turned 18 it's like that that kind of thing that I just I don't see how it's

Possible if the Apple watch isn't either offering like a trade-in program or an update program some people on Twitter after I posted that had some pretty good ideas someone was like well it might be that anyone who buys in addition gets sort of a lifetime lifetime trade-in option where you pay a certain amount of money to upgrade the watch the addition club yeah no seriously which I mean it's again doesn't necessarily sound like Apple but we're entering new territory here um and also it does it's funny because when when John Gruber linked my piece yesterday he pointed out the the

Photo of you know the thumb and the finger holding up the s-1 ship and on one hand I'm like yeah that's that's a cool way to show oh it's a tiny chip another I'm like when I first saw that picture I thought you know that kind of looks like a puzzle piece it kind of looks like something that you should just be able to like slot in and out um and I don't know I don't know well we'll see in a month like I wonder if the display could pop out to like you know if Apple keeps the form factor the same for a couple generations like they do with a higher-end Mac Pro

They could just slot in new new components it's interesting my friend Dave defray Ville on Twitter suggest that we start a time-sharing business for a high-end Apple watches you know kind of like they're kind of like a condo I guess in Boca it may not be a bad idea who knows you know you need to impress that board member with your extraordinary fashion sense then you know spend a grand and read to watch for a week or whatever I don't know it's like uber for Apple watch it's like uber for Apple watch exactly nice pitch so you know I okay great trade-in sure

Maybe I don't know that it doesn't occur to me that Rolex really has a trade-in program it's an heirloom device that gets passed either from generation to generation or you know sold in private sales but um you know it's like buying a vintage Mercedes let's say or you know something else you know there-there's there there certainly a market for for luxury products from Apple I think but i'm not sure that Apple really needs to give the market and incentive right off the bat 22 to capture the loyalty of the people who are buying it on the extreme fringe I just don't see that that's

Something they really have to do so here's a wild theory what if the apple watch edition is made in miniscule quantities but exists primarily as a marketing vehicle to get apple into the luxury space so they get onto vogue they get into the Paris runway shows that they have a product for people who drive Lamborghinis and don't care how much the price of gas is if they really want it because they might get one anyway in this way they get the gold one and so you get those high-end people who really want that product you get all the attention that comes with being in that

Space but it really doesn't cost you much because most of your volume is made up for on the sport and on the the regular apple watch for people who want just a little step up well do you remember before the iphone came out back in 2007 there were very high-end smartwatches that you could buy my own smartphones right yeah exactly that you could buy if money was absolutely no object and you know didn't bang & olufsen have one you can go through I think how wonderful is it the win or encore but there's a ver to store and you walk through there and they used

To run symbian now they run Android and they're encrusted in gold and precious jewels and you press a button and it's not serious answers it's some poor bastard on the other end of that line who has to do whatever you ask him to do it's like Jarvis uh the array the original comic book artist that's the actual journal steering yeah I know see the thing is I feel like Apple could go two ways on that right well they where they could go down that path they could just be like the addition is for the folks who can afford to replace a ten-thousand-dollar gadget every 18

Months no problem um it just doesn't I don't know it's just something something about conceal Ike being a consumer respect is not quite the word I'm looking for like Georgia was angry right like she was made she thought it was be taking advantage of people to have a watch that expensive yeah well yeah and then I feel like there that is a certain a certain drumbeat from folks in like from folks to whom a ten-thousand-dollar watch is no light investment um but maybe the what may be the addition and truly isn't for us like maybe maybe is for the people who buy a

Ten-thousand-dollar watch with no more hesitation than we buy a seven hundred dollar iphone every 18 months like there are there are plenty of there's like a huge section of the population who looks at you and me as crazy people Renee because we have so many very editions of iPads and iPhones it's a market that maybe we don't understand I mean it there's airports and Dubai that sell gold bars why I don't know why would someone put a credit card in a vending machine and buy a gold bar I don't know but obviously people do it so I think that there are people with disposable

Income and then you look at our own Kevin he wants that watch to be 10 grand so for some people it's a status symbol it's an elite symbol so I think there is a market and people that don't want it will go for a lower and I just think that that's a market that there's there's a lot of people for that market John what are the IRS is the Harding I already know that it's not for me no matter how long the watched last some that's been in seven thousand dollars on a watch you can picture Schiller with the new gold watch every year and Jeff Williams driving the same old apple

Sport watch for ten years done what are the odds that this is a psychology experiment in conjunction with Stanford that they just want to see our reaction are we guessed low I think they want the money that Trixie Tim Cook yeah I mean it is a it is a great way to pay for the Apple watches initial production I'll say that because you get you know $10,000 a unit that's i you got a pretty hi marcus yeah exactly i mean even if the watch is solid gold and even if they end up producing all gold bands which they haven't yet released the watch isn't 60 inches across so it's a it's a

Small amount of gold so regardless of the price of gold they're making a lot of money on about thirteen hundred dollars worth between thirteen hundred and two thousand dollars with a gold depending on the estimate wait they're making a 60-inch watch that's awesome says the person one who use an iphone 6 plus if the watch pro beater goes on your wall what time is it has a folio board holding yeah it's a bluetooth keyboard on you can that goes on the other wrist read you also link to an article in wearable and an article in wired that was talking about the first

Generation of watch apps yes some developers talked to both wearable and wired about the various apps that they were working on and there's a there's a pretty a wide variety which makes me excited one of the things that I've been really bullish on and really looking forward to is the varied type of apps and content we're going to get on the watch when it premieres in April um and it's exciting to see the developers are kind of diving in headfirst even though I know some people were a little skeptical and like oh I don't know what I'm gonna develop and then I don't you

Know I haven't quite found the watchkit app for me quite yet uh but I still I think there's some interesting stuff I know ETA is working on an app that I'm really really excited about I love ETA on the phone clear is working on a watch app there was a watch app for snowboarders and other winter sport people to track their winter sports because they got cranky that like RunKeeper doesn't quite do great job tracker on has no use for that yeah in your land of lack of snow yep um but yes and then wire did a whole in-depth feature on some of the health purposes

And the health apps that are being worked on for for the watch in that actually that's an entire space that I'm fascinated by and don't understand too much yet um just because I'm not I'm not someone who necessarily needs to monitor their health daily other than I like to know I would love to have a device that could actually like track my heart rate and track you know max o2 levels and things like that while I'm working out and cross training and skating because the Fitbit if it's not so good for roller derby huh well that's I'm intrigued with health too because I've

Learned so many different fitness bands and I would wear one specific fitness band if it was great so to me it's interesting from a health perspective because it opens up a whole new door of different apps that can interface with that now you're kind of stuck if you buy an up 24 you're stuck in that ecosystem if you buy a Fitbit you're stuck in that ecosystem or I think Apple watch might do something a little bit different there so it'll be interesting to see what kind of health apps either get updated or come out that will integrate into the information that it can pull

That's interesting to me because like the iphone for some people as a camera for some people it's a gaming device it has different personalities depending on what you want to do with it and i think the watch will be like that there'll be some people who might even get more than one watch know they have their sport watch that they just run around with me or the other one that they wear out to parties but you'll have people who just want the or mostly want the health aspects and it'll be great for them some people will mostly want the notifications some people won't have

Access to apple pay because they have an iphone 5 or 5s or 5c but because of the wash they'll suddenly have access to Apple pay other people might want to just remote control the home kit stuff around their house and some people wanna combinations of those things so I think actually this is going to appeal to people on more vectors than just a straight watch you not like a straight classical timepiece could vector isn't that different pop carrot podcast where is the cross referencing all the gasps today Renee what is the if you if you could have any any app what are you

Most looking forward to for the watch so I'm conflicted on this and we we thought about talking to developers a lot about watchkit but then it turns out like apples running these labs or kitchens in cupertino right now where they're bringing developers in letting them work on the hardware to ensure that there are a bunch of apps that are really you know well done and ready for launch and we saw the twitter app in the facebook app and i think a couple airline apps back at the event in September but a lot of other people don't have that opportunity there working off the simulator and

They're working off just what they think is going to happen and I'm not sure when they will tell you a first-hand that the first thing they're going to do is get that watch and try it so I think there's going to be a two-tiered sort of release here where there are those apps that are fully baked and they're those apps that are more trepidatious but i'm actually looking mostly forward to the the core stuff that comes with the watch i think that's what's going to occupy my time at first and anything else will just be mostly access through notification i don't imagine i'll be sitting there

Scrolling through my watch looking for apps very often i'll do that on my phone is just when my phone is not handy and I see something come up on my watch I'll try to twit triage and if I can't but otherwise I'll hand back off to my phone really quick mm-hmm Ellie what about you repeat the question again cuz I just listened to her name looks like we found out yeah it was the original question again what what are you looking forward to a nap in particular for the Apple watch honestly I think health anything health kit because I've yet to see that really do anything I've seen a couple

Different health apps that are now reading and writing to health kit which is awesome because I think it was the jawbone up app where um I hadn't used it blue valley we do oh she talked about health that was the end it was it's apple secret police they found any shoes talk to you I'm gonna tell her later cut off what about you Johnny than you're looking forward to um well so I happen I have a warring of that I will watch for years and the battery finally died like right before Christmas and so I haven't been wearing one for the last couple months and the two things that I get my

Phone out of my pocket the most or just to check the time and the weather and so those two basic things I think being able to just do that it's that without having to take my phone out of my pocket will be helpful and fortunately I actually started exercising again like about last spring so the the health stuff is actually finally going to be interesting to me after just sitting around being a couch potato for about 10 years as a race child so the timing is good for sure Peter which is a which is also a watch plug up all terrible terrible logical

Fire molds god that's I'm so glad you're here Peter I'm so glad you could make it Peter John if we were both wearing Apple watch's right now I'd be trolling you with penises on you know I honestly as instead of it like you do now by faxing them to me exactly um to answer your question serenity probably to health stuff right now you know it is as everybody knows I'm much more physically active than it was even six months ago and much more concerned about you know stuff like heart rate and the more advanced stuff is really where it gets interesting to me if there's a way in

The future I don't expect this for a 1 point 0 product but at some point in the future if an Apple watch can help me keep track of metrics like my blood glucose level or my blood pressure you know that my body temperature and stuff like that I'm not sure if that's available that would be very cool you know heart rate yeah ok heart rate is one thing that that'd be cool to know and it'd be nice to have a more accurate idea of how I'm moving throughout the day on but there's a lot more deep biometric information that I'd like to be able to access which I can't right

Now using the tools that I've got that and if if the Apple watch is something that can help me with that at some point in the future that's going to be very interesting to me I'm picturing an Apple watch that has a needle on the back of it just what used to every time you strap it on it just I believe I'm imagining some credit here are likely in like your Wolverine but I have face hugger or a star over you but I every guy so you guys are amateurs i was thinking something more Cronenberg e and you know something you know something with claws

Come on something that would use a parole say it is you insert a for like Mobius right exactly definitely out of heavy metal for sure nice we're gonna take a quick break and I'm going to tell you about the tie bar the tie bar is a leader in men's fashion accessories is WWE bar calm they paid for the V so please use the D they loved by GQ and celebrities alike the tie bar delivers high-quality products at unbeatable prices whether you need ties or bow ties for work or for play the tie bar has you covered if there happens to be a wedding in your future this is your spot too I

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Youthfulness because i'm filing this under under this the Steve Wozniak or increasingly the John we guess a line of people who talk about Apple and get their thoughts published even though if they were not the person they were they wouldn't get published yeah i mean it's it's marketing but it's dumb marketing I mean you kind of have to stand up for your under street i guess and and put your foot forward and say you know we spent a lot of time working in this business and you know it's not as easy as you think it is because what else you're gonna do let's say say oh my god

They're coming run that doesn't look so good love that video that mary i have public opinion so we went to stir degrees like what the guy what's the guy going to say when asked about apple building a car but on the other hand you know this just happens over and over again now and it becomes kind of a like a comedy routine deciding for the club the clowns choose to come out and for them to fall on their faces apple just keep driving I'm waiting attention I'm waiting for one of them just say all right Apple come on we've been doing this for years you know this

Really really well we welcome competition you've revolutionised a lot of industries maybe you can do some cool stuff here but we're gonna beat you like just mean if you're going to be a baller be a baller yeah anyone anyone want to add on to the car pile any news in you car thoughts I know I still hold back I still hold by what I said last week which is that uh you know Apple could make a car are they going on mmm yeah I can't answer that question for like six years right because I wouldn't be surprised if they're working on something but whether or not it's

Actually gonna become a real product ID exactly I mean God knows they've worked on plenty of things that I've never seen the light of day and it was very good that they never did I can't believe they didn't kick starter it now they'd be the billion dollars already it's just a little too missed opportunities you gotta write that onion article yeah they certainly certainly need the money it's just so it's again it's a way to get John Williams to upgrade his car that's what this whole thing is it's not Morgan I gotta figure out a way to get John out of that Camry no underpaid sure scraping

By all right Peter this is something that I thought was really interesting Apple might be changing up the genius program so before you could make your appointments online you can still do that but if you went into the store with a problem they would just make an appointment for you and now it sounds almost like the restaurant business well they'll triage you based on availability and priority of your problems so if you come in and say i'm having trouble syncing contacts you might have to wait a while if you come in and say all my screens broken they might you know show

You in like you've got chest pain i think that this is probably the result of the way that people are actually going to the apple store looking for service you know I work in an apple authorized service provider an ASP an independent reseller that also repairs max and it's interesting to me that when our customers call us up and ask if they can bring a mac and they ask if they need to make an appointment we tell them no because our volume level is a lot lower than the apple store is and they're constantly surprised by this because they're just so conditioned that

You know if they go to the apple store they're going to need to make an appointment where they can see somebody but a lot of people don't get that message a lot of people continue to walk into the apple store thinking I've got a problem with my phone I'm right here at the apple store I might as well go in and see and then they take umbrage with the fact that they actually have to wait for a few hours before they can talk to somebody or may even have to come back on a different day so I think that it makes sense that apple would would would

Set up a triage style remedy for customers who are obviously in crisis who have machines that are broken and need them replaced right away versus somebody who's problem it might be something that they can live with for a couple of hours or you no longer if necessary that seems to make perfect sense to me when you worked at Apple is that your take two yeah I mean I actually think this is really great the genius system in general it's been overworked very recently just there there are so many people who all want different problems um and there was

Always a notes field for geniuses prior to this but a very few people ever filled that out when they're making appointments or making store appointments so a genius you know could basically was coming at problems blind being like I don't know if this is gonna take me five minutes or three hours to triage um it also helps because you know primarily the geniuses are back there to deal with software and hardware problems um and anything that's like legitimately broken if you have a question about contacts or anything like that you're like my contacts won't sync that's a

Thing that can also be triaged by one of the other specialists in the apple store including like the koreans who teach the workshops so being able to better sort of diversify the staff to better to like suit each of the needs and make sure that people get in there um in and out without having to wait around the store forever which definitely happens and there's only so much so much seating and God knows when you add an Apple watch display there's probably gonna be even even less ability to really loiter around the store did you triage alley when you were repairing iphones oh no I

Typically did first come first serve the only exception to that was typically water damage cuz that's a tall new bag of tricks so that can take anywhere from 20 minutes to I don't know two days to figure out what's wrong with it depending um very seldom did we do that I don't know how I like that in an apple store I think I would be okay with that because I do agree with Ren to some point but I still want the ability to walk in and have my set appointment and I don't know if I'm understanding that differently but I don't want to go walk around the mall

For two hours because i don't like malls so as long as I can keep my option of just scheduling an appointment coming in and being seen right then but if it changes the way current appointments are handled I don't think I'd be very happy with that it looks like you're still going to be able to make appointments ahead of time this is just for all the people who walk in today oh yeah because i had the online us and I don't know if you feel the same way as me job anything that reduces the volume of interruptions that people surfing the facebook on the iPads have to face it it's better yeah

Sure absolutely yeah it's funny I mean like I never had much of a problem with the system at the apple store because I know how the system works um but that my wife had to go a couple times well just a few months ago and you know she didn't understand that you had to like talk to somebody when you walk into the front and then they'll they'll let them know at the genius part that you're there and then they tell you like we just be in a certain spot and somehow they figure out that's you and so she would just go right to the genius bar and then she was ending up standing there for a long time

And they because they didn't realize that she was there and so they they were pretty good on she she kind of like complained about it and they were pretty good about calling her and after the fact and like talking to her about what her you know what she felt didn't work well so it's I mean I guess it's it's just a good idea that they're they're kind of constantly questioning the way that their or atoms are constantly doing it but at least they are doing it now questioning the way that they're doing stuff because I think definitely some people are not getting a good experience

With the way it was with way it's been working to date well that's a giant Syracuse Ian dilemma is you know success hides problems and the apple store retail stores are family successful so what problems what problems are keeping dogs are accused up at night about you know the up apple retail experience they should just talk to John John yeah go for everything I thought like you got a man I'm ready John Hunt hate her you know he would never move to Cupertino just a lost cause I don't know after this winter hmm and I said I forgot I was uh yeah that's absolutely it was

From mark Gurman at 9to5 mac who's been following the retail story for quite a long time a couple of things I want to talk about we've been talking a lot about iOS 9 and I've going on now I think it's six or seven years I've been asking for a simple files dot app we have a photo app Apple put out a passbook app they put out a health but app they have all these repositories for all of these things and yet files which are arguably important to a great many people are still the second class citizen which last year we're locked in nap jails and this year now have this

Wonderful iCloud Drive and document picker that you can access anywhere but directly from from iOS Peters making the mouth I just will look you have icloud baked iCloud Drive baked right into your finder you're fine you could care less about this I I think that it's just some people think about files like they think about I need my report or I need that presentation and they it's harder for them to go what app did I create that in do I have to go and open by word or do I open this or that to try and find that they just know they want that presentation if they could hit files dot

App hit that presentation then just open it in whatever app they want I think it makes the iphone more accessible and I think you know if they could build that into email attachments all sorts of other things I think it makes it better for people for whom you know even iOS is still a little bit intimidating and accessible well I think for some people to maybe I remember saving a file but I don't remember what app I had edited it in or you change thats what do you mean like you started using one text editor than this new text editor started using that there are so many apps so like with

Share sheets I'd like to be able to just have a finder app so i can find that file and then click the share sheet open in and then see cuz i might not know that i have another app installed that handles that kind of acumen so and i think that's a problems a lot of people might have yep i agree i want it i want to hear Peter well I you know I I I give I give her an a crap about this because I I think that you know Renee it sort of perennial II complains about file management on iOS the same way the gene munster constantly predicted that the it's my desk or to release that he's

Good that Apple is going to release an apple television and I just imagine the event where it actually happens like at WWDC this year I just expect to see uh Craig federighi on stage go yeah and we've got full file management iOS 9 and turn and I see Renee just sitting there frothing at the mouth enjoy oh that reminds because reddit serenity and I were sitting next to Syracuse on the announce whiffed and he actually turned to jason snelling said is this a fugue state am I actually hearing this am I is this real life are you hearing the same thing are you hearing the words coming

Out of his mouth the same way I am the problem which files app in iOS 9 is there still writing this whole like we don't want people have to have to deal with files but you know what I like files files are useful I would like to be able to you know when I loaded a Dropbox video I would like to have an option to download it not to my dropbox so I could you know view it somewhere else on my iOS device god forbid download two videos what's so wrong with that people keep saying that it's a file i really don't want a filesystem I try to make that super clear a file system

Is not human most people don't know how to relate to them I just want a repository you hit a button called iCloud Drive for files or whatever this thing comes up it shows you those same things you get in the document picker it has a search thing so you can search for stuff you just type something in and you find it quickly and easily and i think it's sort of like when Marco Arment made the very first version of the magazine we didn't want to Settings button its we did everything he could to avoid having settings and then up making it more complicated than just having a Settings

Button so in there making settings i think apple's attempt to not have a file system has made it more complicated than having a repository and they've already established the repositories work great on my phones because every time I hit the Photos app I get the image picker you know it's a lie I just want an analog I should have screenshotted my inbox when I cloud drive came out because that would have been proof enough that it was more confusing than it was helpful so people were nowhere it was right we kept in email yes it was okay i see that like some app

Have access to it but how do I have access to it like where do I just see all of my things in one place without having to go through an app that I do or don't know whether or not its supports iCloud Drive so then it was this mad hunt to find App Store apps like documents five by rheatt all or something of the like that supported iCloud Drive so you could see what was in iCloud Drive so if you want of a Mac that's a big problem I wonder shares because people sometimes think that this stuff is silly but we got this amazing tweet yesterday from one of our readers

Saying yay I've learned how to create folders on my iPhone home page if I feel like a new woman do it now we've had people write in and say why doesn't Apple have a button that turns off the screen what I have to put my phone down and wait for the screen to turn anything you don't know is a mystery to you and these these things could be made more apparent the affordances could be greater that's all I'm sorry we were standing in an apple store waiting for a genius appointment probably like maybe two years ago and the ladies standing next to us was talking to her friend and

We visibly heard her say I love this phone now only if Apple would make a way for me to get my pictures off of it so they're reliable but don't know basic things because sometimes we overestimate what we think people know so and it's not always the case my father was an apple and I was an IBM engineer going back to the 70s he's been CEO of two companies I had to show him he could email his photos off the iphones because he never thought that was how you move photos around like these these things are not you know they're not snoring oh man wanted in and people don't you know

Some people don't ever plug their phone into a computer I don't fix it well and i'm going back to like days before I cloud existed or iTunes Wi-Fi sync you know people would come in with a broken phone or water to have you ever plugged your phone in and they look at me like I had six head why would I do that well to back up your stuff or experience I mean people don't know so you can't ever assume i'm going to quickly transit to the wall street journal put up an article about how Apple should you know why does Apple value thinness over longer battery life cosmetics over

Functionality why don't they just make the iphone 6 as thick as the iphone 4 and give it double the battery life and this is a common myth and a common misconception that that's been around for a long time so I wanted to just quickly point out that it doesn't work that way literally does not work that because first of all an iphone 6 or 6 plus as thick as an iphone 4 would be very heavy and apple doesn't make thin products to make thin products they make thin products because they feel much better in your hand they fit in your pocket better but they're also lighter

And when they're later you can hold them up longer you can read iBooks longer you can watch movies longer you can talk on you know I message or Twitter longer and that to them is very deep-seated usability it's a very big concern they didn't want to make a large phone that was a brick i have a nokia 1020 sitting back there i could drop it in den concrete with that thing it's it's a totally different experience I don't hold it up for a long time because it's heavy Apple very intentionally made it light because they know that if you really want to you can add a battery

Pack the same way that if you want a rugged phone you could add an otterbox or a lifeproof case but you can't take that off if they made a rugged phone or they made a double size max phone like Motorola does if you suddenly wanted a lighter phone to carry around you can't rip half the phone off so it is a decision you know battery life is something that you pay for with you know bigger screens costs battery life brighter screens radios all that stuff costs battery life so does usability and they chose to pay for that usability with a thinner bat thinner phone and it

Also the battery is a giant insulator so the bigger the battery the hotter the more heat it keeps in the faster you have to ramp down the CPU and they're also not RF transparent so you have to make the radios were around them so all that to say is that it's a bigger problem than apples mean and doesn't give me enough battery you know some good no I was just um I have all what long been in the opinion that I'm like happily you don't necessarily need to make it thinner just keep me like give me that give me the same thickness that I've always had and I'll be I'll be

Groovy with that um and then while I was cleaning my office yesterday I have a I have an ipad 4th generation um sitting right now it's so big I so I picked it up thinking it was the air for a second and I I almost literally had one of these like what like it's not that heavy but I still I expected it to be a certain weight and then it wasn't and my entire body was like completely thrown off because I'm like wow this thing is actually really heavy I can't like the ipad air I can pick up with two fingers and it doesn't like that's that's not a problem you try doing that

To a third gender or a fourth generation I've had you're gonna have a broken i paddle well then there's the thickness difference between an iphone 4 and an iphone 6 and I want someone one time to take an iphone 6 that's this thickness that's this thick and fall asleep and smack it on their face they will make tracked ever wanting a thicker iphone that's the size of an iphone since you've been typing we were walking with what han-shan to type with a big phone and it's heavy it throws off the balance it's a multi-faceted like they work really hard believe me if Johnny I've

Could have a flush camera on an iphone 6 he would be happy happy happy Jonny but even he understood that the usability was more important than him having a camera bulge and the continuous was always the only thing that I ever was jealous of certain android phones over it's like i would see somebody and i would just think uh I think it's a whisper that what I would love to have that and so the thin this is the six i think is great for most phones to optics kind of dictate the thickness don't they yeah there's no way to really yeah yeah yeahs cameras want depth they want they

Want said access and unless the new technology comes along and everyone's already researching new technologies but that's constraining factor eventually the headphone jack will be the constraining factor and some people say like health in do you want it as thin as the laws of physics will allow because i can add a case but i can't take away casing if Apple can get to a credit card with a hologram I'll be super happy because that's what Tony Stark has and i'm uber jealous and at what point does Apple just stop putting headphone jacks and phones and saying you use bluetooth

Headphones at what point is that our watch and that's powerful enough to do everything and it creates a little virtual holographic phone I mean I'm all in on this future thing click CD drives and zip drives being progressivism is good it's a good thing people progress yay one other thing I wanted to rant about before we get to the fun stuff is this group called I what a GFI and it was picked up by a lot of outlets which stupefied me did a security report and it's not a report I don't know why it's called a report I don't know how it got published I don't know how it got picked

Up but they basically went and listed all security exploits against all versions of OS 10 and put that against itemized security exploits reported against every single different version of windows and then made an article saying that OS 10 was the least secure operating system and they use the National vulnerability database uh to make this claim the National vulnerability database doesn't list vulnerabilities it lists reports of fixed vulnerabilities from a vendor so at best you can say that apple reported the most fixed vulnerabilities to this

Database at worst you could say that someone really badly wanted a number to put on a marketing slide one day but I John I'm like I want to laugh yeah I think it's worse kind of reporting well so many of these things are done to just get attention probably you know and probably for that firm I mean it's like we can we can make a you know we can make this report that let makes layup Apple look like the worse than and you know a lot of people will click on it I never one thing I don't understand understand is how people think that that makes them look smart and why anybody

Would then use their company's services because to me it just makes them look dumb my guess is they sell it to PC vendors who want to put it on their bullets yeah and I think that's what my company does right i mean they they sell they sell security services to IT organizations that use windows right yeah so you know there's no there's no harm for them to take a potshot at Apple of course not yeah it's fun because there's couple things OS 10 in iOS you're listed as one operating system where windows is broken down by version they don't they don't specify that it's

A database of reporting not a database of vulnerability Apple and Microsoft actually have very different policies when it comes to how they report for example they list 0 low priority vulnerabilities from Microsoft which is really weird because everyone has low priority low very low vulnerabilities OS 10 and iOS have significant unix and open source software elements that mean a lot of other people are reporting on their behalf it's it's a it is a bag of hurt this report so if you see anyone citing it please yell at them in a vicious matter right to their editors

And man that they do better job well as like I think about laughing but then like the BBC gives out these headlines and my mom panics and calls me and says is my vac vulnerable spying on me and she's a she's used to be a college teacher she's not dumb but she listens and trust mainstream journalism yeah and meanwhile sorry go ahead no as it only takes you know CNN reporting on one stupid story to to make everybody concerned about it well the Internet's made it much easier for them to report on stupid stories without fact-checking because you can do

It much quicker have you if you reblog this without fact-checking it shame on you you made the Internet dumber well I was guess I mean while lenovo adds things to your computer that make then makes it more less secure not even like without a union and then exploit because they've just baked it right into the way that they've shipped the machine the way it's configured it's not a you know it's not a specific windows exploit their just adding something that's going to make it worse did you see the CTO interview in New York Times today no it was horrifying he repeated the line that

They did this not to make money but to enhance the shopping experience of their customers because they thought that additional recommendations would be of a benefit then they he kept asking and why didn't you fix the security the security was reported to you long before he said we chose to focus on the shopping element further press he wanted you were alerted to security thing weeks before it goes well we chose to prioritize something else oh my god it is the most horrific like it is the worst possible I don't know how all they should have done is come out and said look we fired our

CTO we've got a new operation in place we're going to make with everything we can to make this right they didn't they chose to me too they believe we were too stupid to see their crap we're so they gave us a crap interview because they still think we're stupid yeah horrifying alright on to happier things serenity you did an awesome review for Forge yeah add on its new app so it on it um makes oh I will get it from my from my box of silences here and on it makes a great little tool called jot touch apparently it's not in that but you need us you need a Batman style utility belt for

Your stylist they really did you should see them a bandolier you're yelling about us web shooters right now it's just a bunch of torn up torn up boxes with various things in them yeah I made a giant spreadsheet i think i have about 56 styluses those are my initial candidates and I may get more when i post our poll of like what other styles are you using so that's fun mom but yeah so add on it makes a couple different styluses including the jot mini the jot pro and the jot touch and they recently came out with a free app called Forge which I can only really

Described as a storyboarding app just I'll pull it up it's um it's really cool not only because it's a nice way to just kind of sketch out ideas and iterate on them um but the tools are actually really nice and it's like I'm notoriously picky about the tools that I use and for a long time as much as I was like annoyed by paper and it's limited export options and like various and the fact that you can't resize brush sizes I stuck with it because the tools were so good and forges tools aren't quite as good as paper but they have some like really nice pencil rendering the marker

Is really cool and has a very nice rendering and shading so for the people watching the live stream there's forge on my on my iPad air it basically allows you to start with one idea sketch a little bit and then swipe from the right side of the screen over to copy any of the layers from your first idea on to your second idea so you can iterate on things you can do like oh pencil sketch on top of a source material some kind of photo then the next the next iteration of your idea you're like oh well I'm gonna try actually you know if I'm designing a theoretical Apple car first

One I make around you know around passenger area second one I'm going to make it a little bit boxy third one I'm gonna do like a round up until very top and then imma put a sunroof or something like it it's really cool and I see it being useful to a lot of different people I know cartoonists in particular getting really excited over this my buddy David lor who does scripts for radio plays me incomparable got super excited and he's like this thing is a set designers dream i like it just because it allows me to kind of separate the drawing process from like

Initial sketch to over and then of course you know you've got people who do legit storyboards people who are in the film industry um you've got people who are in industrial design and want to iterate out on different sketches it's just it's a really cool app and it's free um and if you you get to project boards to start and then if you want more project boards you can pay a one-time fee of four bucks but it's free to go around and play around with all the tools are free and if you have a jot touch you can have pressure sensitivity within the app so I like I really dig it

I think it's a really neat app and very smooth and i definitely recommend people play around with it it's awesome Peter you're demanding you're demanding a new iphone case for you a new car case for your iPhone and you phone for your car what are you doing again yeah so there's this division of Bondi the you know Japanese company that does toys and and and video games and so on called crazy case and they are capitalizing on 80 sci-fi nostalgia with a few different cases designed for the iphone 6 the first one that i saw last month was the Batmobile the original Burton Batmobile

Is we had the Tim Burton Batmobile from the first you know major Batmobile motion picture from the 80s you know this thing was this enormous turbine monstrosity was becoming arc back absolutely it was amazing and they've turned it into an iphone case an iphone case that the wheels slide out of place so you can have access to the camera and it lights up and it actually displays the bat signal on the wall when you get a call I mean come on how come with that well just this past week I saw them I saw that they had introduced a new one based on the DeLorean from Back to the

Future you know the time-traveling delorean so great that Doc Brown and the doc brown built that Marty McFly uses to travel back to nineteen fifty-five although they've taken it a step further and they've actual given at the back to the future to treatment so you know this is the flying version that mr. fusion version the mr. fusion version with the hover wheels it's very cool so I was thinking a little bit about some sci-fi cars from the 80s that I would really love to see and I think that my top of the list my absolute top of the list would be the

Spinner from Blade Runner it's one of my favorite vehicles ever you know that's the cop car that you seek GAF driving when he picks Deckard up it does vertical takeoff and landing it's a Sydney design it's just it's a classic 1980s sci-fi design and it's so classic that it ended up it in other movies like back to the future to a sort of homage at that point because it was just such an iconic figure the only other one that I would really want to see that I just would love to get my hands on would be the pursuit special that Mad Max drove which I think there's a hot chance for

Us given that fury road is coming out soon oh so great there's so much speed racer would be an obvious one and it's not five I mean come on yeah absolutely there there are so many you know Kato and green Hornets not car you know there's their sister there's tons of awesome experience car I heard some of us for kit in your comments oh that's right yeah KITT KITT week it is a natural for that and the devil automated roving robot or car if you prefer or how about airwolf we could have Ernest Borgnine audio coming out of the back of it airwolf vs. blue thunder that would

Be amazing there we go I would like an Ernest Borgnine case / Debbie cool I John I I didn't I didn't ask you to pick anything but you've been working on a lot of awesome minecraft stuff lately yeah yeah that's turned into thank thanks to my son that's turned into you're blaming hang for your by my honor specialty oh yeah yeah definitely blaming thanking a little bit of both actually yeah so i co-wrote a book and a week from yesterday proton next next tuesday i'll be talking about the book up in Seattle with our pal Glenn Fleischmann at aegis books so that's

Looking for that'll be cool it's a phenomenon everything I know plays it's like virtual let it go every kid I know plays it it's crazy I mean it's like it's pret you're practically guaranteed that you know if you're someplace with a kid of that age and my son's now 11 and but he's been playing for two or three years now if you if you run into a kid that age if you talk to them if you're trying to figure back on something to talk to them about talk to them I minecraft chances are pretty good that you'll get a long conversation with them I'm not

Talking to Daddy I built a virtual you in Minecraft in his way boring he actually does what I tell him to Yeah right he's me virtual allowance but there has been playing much minecraft as I want awesome and working people find out more about it about the event but yeah well the book is at peach pit press and it's also available on iBooks and Amazon and the event is I think it's eight as books I'll throw it in the show notes let me find out yeah I'll be in the show that's Abby's yeah Seattle technical books calm is uh I guess their website and or just follow Glenn rifle

On Twitter and you'll tweet at night or just follow theta what if you can if you can stand the getting sprayed in a fire hose if she tweets very good base for the fire hose of tweets al you looked at the polar loop this week and you had mixed feelings I did I really want to like the polar loop because it's a really cool piece of hardware it's one of the better designed fitness trackers I've used unfortunately the software is horrible um the polar loop you can you could technically use it without ever launching the app if you just kind of want to monitor day-to-day stuff so

Anyone that wants a modest fitness tracker you could pick one up on amazon i think i put a link in the article for around $75 which brings it under what a lot of fitness trackers are nowadays you don't get the heart rate monitor in which you get with the Fitbit surge the charge HR and a lot of the other fitness trackers on the market in the upcoming up 3 by jawbone you can buy external sensors i've never been a huge fan of those because it's one other thing to keep track of and have to finagle with before working out the software just it hasn't been updated in a long time i

Looked in the app sure there were a lot of people complaining that their data just would like randomly disappear out of the app I had that happen as well so literally I tried to go back several days and I knew I know I wore that band for two weeks and add like four days of data so that's that's a huge issue and since it doesn't read or write to health kit there's no backup so um I just I would expect for some for a band that is a pretty pretty high quality band I would just expect a lot more on the software side so um yeah a little bit disappointed there ouch we

Had we're continuing our new series of columns this week I interviewed the people who do the baby talk program out in redwood city in collaboration with Stanford and what they do is they get iPads loaded with facetime because facetime is end-to-end encrypted which means it's hipper approved and they do therapy for children ages zero to three who have cochlear implants but who live in rural areas and don't have transportations who can't come to the center and do it directly and they ghetto an hour long appointment every week they do it entirely over an iPad

Which is easy because some of these people live in multifamily dwellings need to find someplace quiet to go or their schedules move around and they can always have the ipad with and they can take them wherever they need to go and because its parent they focus coaching even if the child is being surly your disagreeable or is sick the parent can still learn how to introduce sounds and all these different things to their children it's a fantastic program they've been working on a grant but they could use whatever support is available to them so if you go to I more and you

Go to the experts a column it's up today but it'll be available in the in the head bar and I'll put it in the show notes you check that out because I think what they're doing is absolutely fantastic and we have another network coming up this friday with jim dalrymple who you might know from the loop and putting up with peter for who God knows how many years now we've known each other since the 90s so you know back when Nirvana was still a thing so that's coming up and what else we have coming up this week's Trinity um let's see you're doing the photo stravaganza still

Yeah I'm doing some photos stravaganza I did some macro stuff yesterday I'm working on again stylus roundups this week and then starting the stylus reviews for our super round up in the next couple weeks so if you have style of suggestions and you you really have a stylist that you think I absolutely have to review um check out I more this week and give us your input cuz that'd be helpful do you use a stylist John no no no if I see a stylist in your hand you blew it this is this one the stylist of God if you see ya the special stylist hey John but I

Don't use a stylus because they can't draw John that's missing yeah I'm here I draw like a toddler so there's very little memory to use a stylus John I have a stylist but it's out of the friendly even his hands look people listening boy not a friend I'd hang up sound uh yeah I like the sketch actually so entities been um inspiring me to schedule I mean it it's right here I'm not like you know being a that's a that's a pic yeah I've been using the pencil by 53 and the jaw and the Pogo and I've been like that's why I need utility belt too because I like them all

For different apps and that's part of the thing is until Apple makes apple pen and pen kit every app every stylist is going to be better in this on app yeah I mean when a when a stylist maker makes their own app there they have they have incentive to make to make those things work especially well with one another especially when those apps are free like in the case of Forge and paper yeah it's like that they exist to sell the hardware Peter are you still focusing on security this week are you moving on I'll never move on from security it's an issue that comes up over and over again

Mac users don't realize and I I'm not being alarmist here Mac users don't realize just how open they leave themselves to infestations of adware and other kinds of problems we see customers coming in our store literally every day with with inexplicable problems with the web browsers and and and others so if you've got these problems chances are you've got an adware infection on your Mac and you need it taken care of the old canard about you know the max or min from viruses yeah they are immune from viruses but the way that now we're has been

Written has really changed over the years and the old rules don't apply so just because your Mac can't get Windows viruses doesn't mean that it's immune to problems the security is a topic that I'm going to be beating into the ground until every last Mac is secure in the world there was a great how-to geek article they went to download com and I think I don't you saw John but two out of the top 10 most popular downloads on seen that site had super fish in them okay pain I had not really I mean I i I've been careful for years and never really experienced one and then you know

And when you get a kid though your kid starts using technology then they don't really realize this you know some of the stuff that they're clicking on is not really a good idea I mean he wasn't going any place like super bad because I've got the family restriction restrictions on his on his bull mech but but he managed to get some sort of malware you know injected into Safari that you know every time he clicked a button on some place it would take him take him someplace else first before it took him to the place that he was actually trying to go to so basically re

Whites then reinstall that's exactly what happened to one of my kids computers as well I took it I took I checked it out for routine audit and I discovered that he had Genie oh and install mac to notorious adware packages deployed on there because he'd visited a website at some point or another and you know let's read something that read that something needed to be updated clicked on it and you know didn't think twice about it because he just thought it was oh okay well you know I just got to install this update and things never worked right after that he was surprised

When I told him he was unaware of it but you know these things are insidious they're happening everywhere and people should really definitely take care to protect themselves from it I was looking into I said the most common vector for adware insertion on the mac is people going to non Adobe sites to download flash mmm he doesn't surprise me at all you know avoid the flash folks Allie how about you what's on deck for this week Oh lots more Fitness band stuff coming up so like ran if you have any fitness bands that you would like us to review

Or included a roundup yell at me at I mogul on Twitter I'll make sure I take a look at them other than that lots of how to's as is my life um what else some best app roundups and remember what i'm looking at this week so i guess that'll be a surprise surprise everybody surprise surprise to me too secret stuff awesome so then I want to first take an opportunity to thank John molds for joining us thank you very much John thanks for having me so it's not in where can they find you on the internet and which projects of yours can they look forward to uh you can find me on

Very nice website Annette I I write in various places around the web and possibly for you guys sometime um and I'm doing that minecraft thing next week that's not is my next thing and I have we ate my casa forehead and a guy yeah that's right that's right just started up one with Dan morning and guy English to talk about the TV show arrow that's fun and that's yeah just uh mostly just an excuse to sit around and talk to two guys that I like about arrow all right so why people can find you at molt's on the twitters as well right and at multi s correct awesome ala you said you're a

Time muggle i was meted yep Peter where are you these days i'm at flogged flarg h on all the social things and of course at I'm more calm serenity and Saturn adda on Twitter and Instagram and a time more calm every day nice you can find me at Rene Ritchie if you haven't already go listen to John and John talk all sorts of apple stuff on the talk show this week it's a great episode as is usually the case when the two John's collide you can find the show we're moving the live broadcast to Wednesday's now so you'll get it a day earlier if you want you all you have to do is go to

I'm or at Wednesday's at 11am Pacific to PM eastern you'll find us broadcasting live the show will still be available in video forum on demand on YouTube a time more so slash I'm or video or at iTunes anytime you'd like I want to thank all of you for joining us I want to thank the time I'm gonna make sure I get the website address absolutely correct here I want to thank the tie bar com th e TI e VAR com for sponsoring the show and once again if you visit the tie bar calm / I'm or use promo code I'm more 50 by the end of februari you'll get free shipping on

Orders over fifty dollars 50 is the key number their focus remember the number 50 and thank all of you for joining us we love having you and have a great week so you don't talk flash John that seems awfully discriminatory well we well the promise were on the incomparable and they already have a show about flash okis no watch we wanted like we were going to talk about both of them but they but Jason was well we already got that covered so that's all right well you guys have vodka you guys can talk arrow and then Renee guy and I will talk supernatural yes yes there you go yeah I

Know I haven't watched natural to seizing it I'm not you're leading them I haven't gotten into that yet I'm kind of afraid it's fun season Harry and I not for our fan but has time for another one I'm all about Crowley and Rowena and want them to have their own spin-off is that the faith spike spin-off that never happened Peter is that the second version of that yeah um yeah there's so much just the last three episodes of arrow been terrific yeah I I haven't most recent one for so no spoilers why thing is tonight the most recent one no no I mean less last weeks ago right

Surrender an entire week behind i'm a week behind I've been busy oh ok I she's needed today totally caught and it was there a flash last night because there wasn't on Canadian television there was no they won't it was a repeat and there was no supernatural either my life sucked their quads there wasn't aging or yeah I have to watch that I love ate your last last agent Kern porch agent Carter is so good i don't want shield to come back yeah no way dallas yielding better yeah you know III see where you're going with that it's kind of like the shield mixed with the home front if

You remember home for it from a few years ago yeah yeah yeah Howlin commandoes that's all I needed to say Howling Commandos Don thank you guys so much for for joining us yeah you Renee always a pleasure nice to talk to you all

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